José María Sison, the founding chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines (described by the New York Times as “the world’s longest running communist insurgency”) goes into detail with Counterpunch about the theories of liberation which guide him and millions of others toward the horizon of a more just and sustainable world. From Marxism to Maoism, from today’s environmental crisis to the ancestral traditions of indigenous peoples, from peace to protracted war, “one of the last real revolutionaries standing,” as Jeffrey St. Clair calls him, weighs in, – with clarity, history, vision and humor – bringing us burning answers to the burning questions of our times.
This is the second part of an interview which appeared
earlier this month in Counterpunch. Read part one here: Burning
Questions: Talking With José María Sison About Climate Change, Capitalism and
Revolution.
Mao once referenced the legend of “The
Foolish Old Man Who Removed the Mountains” (1947): about a man who refused
to believe that it was impossible to remove two mountains, and set about with
his sons to dig them up by hand over generations. Today, this story reads like
a parable of ecological catastrophe in China China
JMS: The Foolish Old Man Who Removed the Mountains is a
parable, which is an allegory and should be understood as such. It has a
precise meaning and purpose. It refers to the removal of the mountains of
imperialist and feudal domination. Imperialism and feudalism are man-made
social phenomena which are exploitative and oppressive to the people. They are
not natural objects to be preserved as a matter of ecological wisdom. They are
plunderers of both human and natural resources.
The efforts of the foolish old man and his sons to level or
combat the anti-people mountains of imperialism and feudalism are presumed to
be wise, even if puny and insufficient, because the mountains can no longer be
as high as before, and best of all, the angels (i.e. the people) take pity and
come to help themselves and really level the said mountains. Now, do not
proceed to accuse Mao of becoming a theologian and transgressing materialist
philosophy.
In another famous piece of Mao, he uses the mountains in a
simile which you might consider literally and literarily environment-friendly.
He considers that the martyrdom of heroes is as heavy as a mountain, while the
death of traitors is as light as a feather. There should be no overstretch
beyond the clear literary intent and no argument that Mao is against poultry
projects.
The socialist revolution and construction under the
leadership of Mao should not be conflated or confused with the unbridled
plundering and ravaging of the environment in the rapid restoration of
capitalism by the Dengist anti-socialists. In this regard, the anti-Mao
bureaucratic and private capitalists have satirized Mao as a “feudal
socialist”, building socialism self-reliantly and in a sustainable way but on
the stagnant feudal conditions of natural self-sufficiency.
Of course, the other more raucous attack on Mao is the
caricature of the Great Leap Forward as nothing but the mobilization of the
people to kill the birds and let the worms destroy the crops or waste the labor
power in making flimsy uneconomic backyard iron furnaces. The Great Leap
Forward was in fact a comprehensive social and economic plan to develop China
To be brief, I recall that the Chinese comrades whom I met
were proud of the forest belts created to protect Beijing Beijing has become the emblem of China
We can sing paeans to primitive communal life and pristine
nature and impute an admirable balance between nature and the nomadic clans and
more settled tribes. We can actually learn much from the communal and
cooperative relations developed in primitive communal society and in extant
pre-capitalist indigenous communities. But we are now faced with larger
populations on a national scale, the availability of science and higher
technology and socialism as the shining alternative to capitalism. Socialism
must be based on the further development of both the social relations and the
forces of production. We must take a proletarian revolutionary stand, mobilize
the masses and use science and higher technology for this purpose.
We must avail of science and technology to solve the
contradictions between industrial development and the environment, between
physical and mental work, between cities and countryside and between industry
and agriculture. We must move away from the model of monster cities. We must
prefer small and medium cities, embed them with natural parks and encircled by
forests and agricultural fields. We must locate industries properly, promote
rural industries reduce or eliminate altogether fossil fuel, recycle waste and
filter and properly dispose of toxic waste.
Toward the end of his life, Marx devoted much study to
the Iriquois/Haudenosaunee people of North America ,
and to the Russian peasant communes. Marx wrote that “we must not be afraid of
the word archaic,” and said about the Russian peasant commune that “it may thus
become the direct starting point of the economic system towards which modern
society is tending; it may open a new chapter that does not begin with its own
suicide.” He valued the contributions of indigenous peoples and their relations
of production, on the grounds that they could be a foundation for socialism. A
bit less than a century later, in his essay “Reform
our Study” (1941), Mao ridiculed the Marxist-Leninist scholars “who cannot
open their mouths without citing Ancient Greece Philippines Philippines
JMS: Marx once referred to the “idiocy of rural life”,
criticized the French rich peasant as a remnant of barbarism and contrasted the
proletariat as the leading revolutionary class, for being the most progressive
political and productive force, to the peasantry as representing a backward
system of production and as a class that can join the p revolution for a
reactionary reason, like owning individual pieces ofland, against the monopoly
of land by the landlords.
By way of giving a complete picture of Marx, instead of a
fragmentary one, it is good that you refer to Marx devoting much study to the
Iriquois/Haudenosaunee people of North America ,
and to the Russian peasant communes. He appreciated how much we can learn from
the communal and cooperative relations in primitive societies. In fact,
communists adhere to the principle that socialism is based on the
non-exploitative communal and cooperative life, with the aid of science and
technology and higher forms of social organization that reject capitalist
control for private profiteering.
In the Preface to the Russian Editions of the Communist
Manifesto in 1882, Marx and Engels wrote the following:
“But in Russia we find face to face with the rapidly
developing capitalist swindle and bourgeois landed property, just beginning to
develop, more than half the land owned in common by the peasants. Now the
question is : Can the Russian obshchina (village community), though greatly
undermined, yet a form of the primeval common ownership of land, pass directly
to the higher of Communist common ownership? Or on the contrary, must it first
pass through the same process of dissolution as constitutes the historical
evolution of the West? The only answer to that possible today is this: If the
Russian Revolution becomes the signal for a proletariat revolution in the West,
so that both complement each other, the present Russian common ownership of
land may serve as the starting point for a Communist development.”
Before and during the vigorous implementation of
collectivization, the peasant communes supported the advance of socialist
revolution and construction. It became necessary at a certain point for the
greater mass of poor peasants to do away with the profiteering by the rich peasants
(kulaks) during the period of the New Economic Policy that sought to revive the
Russian economy from the devastation wrought by war and to overcome the
scarcities.
In the new democratic stage of the Chinese revolution, the
Chinese communists gave full play to rudimentary forms of cooperation in
agricultural production and sideline occupations in conjunction with land
reform. Building the communes in socialist China meant rising from a certain
level of cooperation to a higher one in three stages. Mao emphasized
cooperative social organization ahead of mechanization, which was not yet
possible. He opposed the Soviet revisionist line of Khruschov that agricultural
cooperation was not possible ahead of mechanization.
You are correct in saying that Dagohoy and his followers in
the southern Philippines and the highland tribes and remontados (lowland
communities that took refuge in the mountains) in northern Luzon could
effectively fight the Spanish colonizers because of their self-reliant communal
and cooperative relations in agricultural production and otherwise. The same
situation holds true among the Lumads (indigenous non-Muslim tribes) of
Mindanao. The massive rice terraces in the mountains of Ifugao as well as other
marvels of productive and social life among the indigenous peoples have been
possible because of communal and cooperative relations. Like bayanihan in
Tagalog, all ethno linguistic communities in the Philippines have a term for
communal solidarity.
As in the new democratic revolution in China, the Filipino
communists give full play to rudimentary cooperation in agricultural production
and in sideline occupations in conjunction with land reform. The rudimentary
forms of cooperation are already being undertaken by the communities even
before land reform. But they are promoted and enhanced more vigorously in order
to set the peasants free from exploitation by the landlords and the
merchant-usurers. The armed revolutionaries and the people can carry a
protracted people’s war because of a well-diversified agricultural economy made
more efficient and productive through forms of cooperation, even if still
simple and rudimentary.
Right now, the communal and cooperative relations still
exemplified by the indigenous people and extant in the peasant communities of
the majority Filipinos or Malays are being put to effective use in the current
new democratic stage of the Philippine revolution. Filipino communists respect
the belief systems attached by the local communities to their productive and
social cooperation. They let the masses act in the furtherance of their rights
and interests and learn from social practice.
They do educate and recruit to the Communist Party the most
advanced elements among the masses. But the Filipino communists take the mass
line. They must learn from the masses what is their situation, their needs and
aspirations. On the basis of social investigation, they learn how to arouse,
organize and mobilize the people. The people may pray hard to anitos, gods, God
and the saints for a better crop or good health. But they never oppose the
demonstrated efficacy of an agriculturist or health worker among the
revolutionaries who come to work among them.
Mao writes:
“Unless the problem of method is solved, talk about the task is useless.” And elsewhere:
“To become both wise and courageous one must acquire a method, a method to be
employed in learning as well as in applying what has been learned.” Tell us
about the method of the New People’s Army. They are armed, but moreover they do
a great deal of economic, social, and political work; more like community
organizers with guns than most people’s typical idea of a guerrilla. What is
their method? How was this method developed?
JMS: You can assume that the cadres and members of the
Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) have a certain amount of knowledge in
the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, in understanding a great
deal more about the general line of people’s democratic revolution with a
socialist perspective and how to recruit communists from the mass movement.
The New People’s Army (NPA) is the main political and armed
instrument of the CPP and the Filipino in defeating the enemy and seizing
political power. To make sure that the NPA remain a revolutionary force of the
people and is not carried away by its armed power, the CPP exercises political
leadership over the NPA through the Central Committee, Military Commission and
the Party organs and organizations within the NPA. The NPA unit commander has
command over administration and military operations but the political officer
makes sure that the Party and the political line are in command over the
military.
The main task of the NPA is to undertake politico-military
training and carry out offensives against the enemy. A combat unit of the NPA
may be ordered to carry out battles with short rest periods for a certain
period of the year, say six months. But for the rest of the year, it is
required to carry out mass work which includes doing social investigation in
new and old areas, carrying out propaganda and grievance meetings, helping to
build mass organizations and organs of political power and participating in
campaigns to carry out out land reform, raise production, engage in educational
work, deliver health services, train the militia and self-defense units, stage
cultural performances and resolve disputes among the people.
How do you navigate practically and ideologically
between “not taking a needle
or piece of thread from the masses,” and revolutionary taxation?
JMS: Taxes are not collected from the toiling masses of
workers and peasants. But voluntary contributions are collected from them as a
small percentage from gains made from land reform or from wage increases as a
result of trade union work. While the percentage of the gains is set, the
peasant or worker can negotiate a smaller contribution or none at all when the
large size of the family or a major illness in the family or a natural disaster
is taken into account. In such cases, the people’s government can extend relief
to those in need.
Taxation is a function of the people’s government and is
enforced by the people’s army on entities enjoying the privilege of operating a
business enterprise. It is usually 4 per cent of the gross revenues of the
enterprise and is merely a tiny fraction of what the reactionary government
collects. Like the people’s contributions, taxes are used to support the cadres
, the Red fighters and mass organizers, the administrative work of the organs
of political power, social programs of health care and education, cooperative
production projects, disaster relief, rehabilitation and reconstruction.
The Chinese revolution was fought and won by the
peasantry. But following the victory of the revolution, the peasantry was
sacrificed for the cities: Mao wrote
in 1949: “From now on, the formula followed in the past twenty years,
‘First the rural areas, then the cities,’ will be reversed and changed to the
formula, ‘First the cities, then the rural areas.’” In today’s planet of slums,
with urbanization continuing to accelerate, would you advocate a similar
strategy? Or have times changed, calling for a different method and mode of
economic development?
JMS: The claims against Mao are wrong. In the period of
socialist revolution and construction, Mao´s leadership took into account a
balanced relationship between the cities and the countryside at every given
time. It deliberately prevented vagabondage, greatly improved agriculture,
restricted city-bound migration and thus did not generate slums. It is the
anti-socialist counterrevolution started by Deng Xiaoping that put imperialist,
big comprador and bureaucrat capitalist profit at the head of China’s economic
development and generated the big slums of migrant and low-paid workers in
China. The migrant workers gravitated towards the sweatshops on the eastern
coast of China.
As you acknowledge, Mao carried out the strategic line of
protracted people’s war, which involved encircling the cities from the
countryside where the most numerous exploited class, the peasantry, resided and
where there was a wide area of maneuver for the people’s army against the
initially far superior enemy force. The proletariat and its revolutionary party
had to go to the peasants who were the main force of the revolution and who
served as the basis for the growth of the people’s from small to big and from
weak to strong.
In completing the victory of the people’s war , the largely
peasant people’s army under the leadership of the proletariat seized the cities
nationwide and took over the camps and vantage points of the enemy army in
order to enable the revolutionary party and the people to take over the
industrial plants and other economic resources concentrated in the cities. This
was the reason for the shift in emphasis from the countryside to the cities in
terms of running the national government and leading the economy of the entire
country. The Chinese Communist Party led by Mao paid back its debt of gratitude
to the peasant masses and the countryside in so many ways.
Land reform was completed nationwide for the benefit of the
peasant masses through the cooperation of state power and mass mobilization.
The imperialist and big comprador firms that used to ravage the peasant masses
and natural resources were nationalized under the socialist system. Learning
from the pioneering experience of the Soviet Union in socialist
industrialization, China maintained agriculture as the basis of the Chinese
economy in order to ensure self-reliance in food and some raw materials. The
development of light industry was accelerated in order to provide basic
consumer and producer goods to the peasant masses and to lighten the burden of
providing food and raw materials for the workers in heavy and basic industries.
Mao wrote
famously that “The Aim of War is to Eliminate War… We are advocates of the
abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through
war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.”
Please tell us your perspective about the peace talks,
mediated by the Norwegians, which are still underway. What are your hopes for
the resolution of the war and/or for the revolutionary war?
JMS: From the viewpoint of the revolutionary forces and the
Filipino people, the civil war raging in the Philippines for more than 46 years
can be ended by a clear victory of the new democratic revolution through a
protracted people’s war or by a negotiated just peace addressing the roots of
the civil war and based on comprehensive agreements on social, economic and
political reforms. The National Democratic Front of the Philippines (NDFP) has
demonstrated that it can make with the Manila government an agreement, like the
Comprehensive Agreement on Respect for Human Rights and International
Humanitarian Law.
But the Manila government is so bound up with the
US-dictated neoliberal economic policy that it has refused to make a
Comprehensive Agreement on Social and Economic Reforms, with national industrialization
and land reform as the core program. Under US advice, the Manila government has
boasted so often that it can destroy or render the armed revolutionary movement
irrelevant and that it has no use for negotiations except to obtain the
surrender of the people’s army.
The revolutionary forces and the Filipino people represented
by the NDFP expect that while their revolutionary strength keeps on growing and
the crisis of the world capitalist system and the domestic ruling system keeps
on worsening, the reactionary rulers will find it necessary to engage in
sincere and serious peace negotiations. The NDFP continues to cooperate with
the Norwegian government third-party facilitator and a broad range of peace
advocates in trying to bring the Manila government to the negotiating table.
At the beginning of this year, Pope Francis came to the
Philippines. The whole world watched when 12 year old Glyzelle
Palomar asked the Pope: “Many children get involved in drugs and
prostitution. Why does God allow these things to happen to us? The children are
not guilty of anything.” The Pope called it “a question for which there is no
answer.” How would you respond to Glyzelle?
JMS: I would respond to Glyzelle in the following manner:
The biggest criminals in the Philippines are the big compradors, landlords and
corrupt bureaucrats who assist the US and other imperialist powers in
plundering the human and natural resources of the country, taking out
superprofits and making the Filipino suffer underdevelopment, mass unemployment
and widepread poverty. Under these conditions, the anti-social crimes of drug
trafficking, prostitution and abuse of children are thriving, with the complicity
of corrupt government officials and the military and police forces.
The Filipino people and their revolutionary forces can
undertake certain measures to punish both the upscale and street criminals. And
they are in the best position to eliminate criminal activities upon the
complete victory of the new democratic revolution. This revolution realizes
full national independence, democracy, social justice, development through
national industrialization and land reform, a patiotic and progressive culture,
protection of the environment and promotion of international solidarity of
peoples for peace and development.
On the theme of culture, in our previous interview, you
recommended Mao’s
lectures at Yenan. In those lectures, Mao said that one central goal in
cultural work is to seek a unity between higher standards and popularization…
can you give us some recommendations of cultural work which lives up to this
ideal? “A
dull witted army cannot defeat the enemy,” as Mao said. So also, please
tell us about the cultural work of the NPA/NDFP/CPP.
JMS: Mao states in Talks at Yenan Forum on Literature and
Art: “What is meant by popularizing and by raising standards in works of
literature and art? What is the relationship between these two tasks? Popular
works are simpler and plainer, and therefore more readily accepted by the broad
masses of the people today. Works of a higher quality, being more polished, are
more difficult to produce and in general do not circulate so easily and quickly
among the masses at present.”
In the above quotation, Mao assumes what he states earlier that
revolutionary literature and art are for the workers, peasants and soldiers
(Red Fighters). Then, he proceeds to distinguish popular works and works of a
higher quality. He uses popularization through popular works as the ground
level for raising the level of literature and art in various forms.
We can cite as popular works, those which are simpler and
plainer and more readily accepted by the broad masses of the people, liker the
declamatory poems and songs, drawings on posters, the graffiti on walls, effigies,
short stories, skits and one-act plays, flag dances and short films that have
been staged during mass protests, workers’ strikes and peasant grievance
meetings. We can cite as works of higher quality, those which are more polished
and more difficult to produce and circulate, such as novels, epics or whole
volumes of poetry, opera, long plays, oil paintings, sculptures and feature
films.
The popular works are in great abundance in both the legal
mass movement and in the armed revolutionary movement in the countryside. In
the latter case, units of the New People’s Army sharpen their fighting will
with their own cultural works. Like the mass organizations, they entertain,
enlighten and inspire their rural audiences with songs, dances, poetic recitations,
skits and film shows. The popular works are effective for propaganda and
agitation because they are addressed to the toiling masses, take up the burning
issues and call on the masses to rise up. The works of higher quality are also
of significant number. They are appreciated by the cadres and masses with a
higher level of formal education and by allies who are highly educated in art
and social issues,
There are popular works which are of high quality like the
poems of Mao. Let me mention the poems of National Artists Amado V. Hernandez,
Bienvenido Lumbrera and many other poets. Revolutionary poems, which are
considered masterpieces by teachers of literature, have been popularized by
recitations or as songs with rousing music. I am fortunate to have some poems
of mine become songs with excellent music. There are also revolutionary works
of high quality which are popular and difficult to create. These include
musicals like Ang Mandirigma Ay Makata (The Guerrila Is a Poet), oil
paintings of the social realists and feature films which are shown in movie
houses or are already available on DVD.
Bibliography
The History of the Philippines: From Indios Bravos to
Filipinos, by Luis H. Francia, Overlook Press, 2010
Late Marx and the Russian Road: Marx and the Peripheries
of Capitalism, by Teodor Shanin, Monthly Review Press, 1983
Selected Works of Mao Tse-Tung, abridged by Bruno
Shaw, Harper, 1970
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/25/from-manila-to-mindanao-with-marx-and-mao-talking-with-talking-with-jose-maria-sison/
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